What a fantastic session Tasha and Jeff that you did with Joel Schwartz!!!!! So important and deeply personal…. You all touched on so many magnificent points that really are important for the whole realm of mental health! I have spent years working in the mental health field with young people. I wish we could have busted through all the stale old concepts to bring forth such spaciousness, deep wisdom and profound sensitivity that it takes to support people to find their way back to themselves and re-kindle their passion for being alive. Thank you🙏❤️🙏
Interesting to compare Adhd-autism-bipolar-need to move with neurological symptoms of early parkinsonism. Not to say they have similar causes, but that the odd movements (dyskinesia), economy of effort put towards unrewarding activities and "feeling not normal" create a similar mindset. The therapeutic suggestions given by Joel Schwartz seem applicable too.
Limit unwanted stimulation, encouraging movement that feels good, addressing shame and trauma and adaptive companionship are needed for anyone with neurological conditions . Though we seemed to be making strides in accommodating diversity, the winds have recently changed. Continue to support education, outreach, research & care opportunities for all who are experiencing symptoms . Jeff & Tasha, another great adventure 👍 👏 😎
Please discuss ABA therapy with sensitivity to the children that were able to learn new skills and reduce dangerous behaviors because of very good ABA. Confusing bad ABA with all ABA is irresponsible.
All ABA is bad. ABA came from conversion therapy - it's literally the same thing (George Rekers who founded conversion therapy and Ivar Lovaas who founded ABA learned their methods trying to force gender nonconforming kids to act normal). Skills can be taught through abusive techniques. The same skills can be taught with affirming techniques. Given how much trauma is reported by ABA survivors, it is time to do away with it. I understand there are few other options out there. My own son went through ABA withe the best out there. Stopping it was the best thing we ever did. And he will tell you how he was traumatized by it. We, as parents, can often be ignorant of what our kids go through, especially if there are perceived benefits. To admit that we harmed them is tough indeed. https://neuroclastic.com/invisible-abuse-aba-and-the-things-only-autistic-people-can-see/
Your vehement opposition has the arrogance of speaking for all people that learn differently. It’s is unfortunate your child can tell you that he was traumatized. There are many other individuals that can tell you they increased their ability to communicate with ABA strategies. Your belief that ABA does not use affirming methods shines a light on your limited understanding of ABA. This is larger conversation than this thread and it is not my intention to add negative comments here. Your articles are opinions. I think this is a space where people can speak of their own experiences and not speak for what is best for others.
Respectfully...how many folks do you hear saying things like, "I'm glad I was spanked. It taught me respect."
There are many folks who claim they were cured by gay conversion therapy.
There are many folks who praise the way we police gender as a society because it "made them a man/woman."
All these practices are inherently abusive. ABA is no different. Non speaking Autistics who have been taught with alternative communication tell the same stories over and over.
Teaching skills is important..it can be done with connection and without coercion, or it can be done by shaping children with coercive techniques. Everything about ABA is the latter. It is okay if you are not convinced. This is more for those watching.
As a countercultural psychologist, understanding abusive and coercive dynamics in society, even subtle ones, is a passion. Abusive dynamics based in coercion are always harmful, even as people praise their abuse due to learning from it. It happens all the time. The point is there are other ways to teach the same skills. So lets do that.
Providing reinforcement for learning is not coercion. Implying that using reinforcement paired with teaching is likened to spanking and conversion therapy is a wildly manipulative tactic to bring in new clients to “countercultural psychology.” Good luck with your practice.
I love this episode. For decades, I’ve been attempting to build a formal meditation practice. I’ve had world class famous meditation teachers fail to land because it was rooted in the, “You must be still,” flawed frame. I decided to develop a yoga practice that was meditation focused because I could move. That worked for 20 years right up until I got too old to have the energy to mask my autism and ADHD. Around then, I found Jeff’s walking meditation and, lo and behold, I could do it. It was a watershed moment because he was the first to say, “Hey, it’s ok.” This episode frames this conversation in all the research I’ve found and done as a creative scientist around embodiment so delightfully. Thanks folks! More like this! 💖
I'm 48 years old and was only diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago. Although it was one of the most significant aha moments of my life, there's still a lot of shame and pain. Today, I feel understood and accepted despite struggling to understand and accept myself; thank you. 🕊️❤️🩹🤲
OMG. 68 year old here, always perceived as a brat, whiner, diva, Prima Donna, princess, Karen...ugh. Two months ago, my Kaiser Psychiatrist, having examined my lifelong sensory issues, some noted in my medical record (asked ENT doc to burn out, disconnect, whatever, my highly sensitive sense of SMELL, all he offered was to give meds that would "stuff up" my nose....ugh) asked me to read Elaine N. Aron's book, The Highly Sensitive Person. He asked my family to read it as well, and they did. I CRIED FOR A WEEK to learn 20-30% of pop. also share this very exhausting, challenging heritary trait. 24 years ago, I remember the day, I made a decision whether to continue dating Fred and his boisterous, Japanese culturally raised family (no complaining!). He didn't critize my behaviors, he seemed a keeper. Recently I learned he planned on *helping* me to change them. That absolutely broke my heart. With the information now being shared about the neurodivergent experience, there is hope for compassion instead of opposition. BTW, four years ago Kaiser paid for my subscription to Calm. Everyday guy Jeff Warren saved my life.
As one of my traits is people pleasing, sorry for the length of this post.
manual/playbook/instructional on how to interact & appreciate the gifts that come with being neurodivergent.
The atmosphere & environment we thrive in. If their similarities & differences in techniques attempted &’were successful. Trial & Error for us. We combine our experiences ; having Four of same similarities. the The journey you went through to be present about #myfriendjeff
How there’s communication when insight or idea I have he’s still approachable
(Techniques that we commonly use, plus our own individual experiences; where each of us found balance using which specific techniques, such as #dbt skills.
Also more fine tuned audience, Like Our Similarities The Four we’re both #bipolar whom have #adhd Who happened to both be #neurodivergent with the same name #jeff However I’m the cool jeff notwithstanding.
If there’s one of us there’s Two of US somewhere, etc
How our own journeys through #mindfulness made its big full circle moment. And be appreciative.
What a fantastic session Tasha and Jeff that you did with Joel Schwartz!!!!! So important and deeply personal…. You all touched on so many magnificent points that really are important for the whole realm of mental health! I have spent years working in the mental health field with young people. I wish we could have busted through all the stale old concepts to bring forth such spaciousness, deep wisdom and profound sensitivity that it takes to support people to find their way back to themselves and re-kindle their passion for being alive. Thank you🙏❤️🙏
Thank YOU for listening! I really enjoyed this conversation - Joel
Interesting to compare Adhd-autism-bipolar-need to move with neurological symptoms of early parkinsonism. Not to say they have similar causes, but that the odd movements (dyskinesia), economy of effort put towards unrewarding activities and "feeling not normal" create a similar mindset. The therapeutic suggestions given by Joel Schwartz seem applicable too.
Limit unwanted stimulation, encouraging movement that feels good, addressing shame and trauma and adaptive companionship are needed for anyone with neurological conditions . Though we seemed to be making strides in accommodating diversity, the winds have recently changed. Continue to support education, outreach, research & care opportunities for all who are experiencing symptoms . Jeff & Tasha, another great adventure 👍 👏 😎
100%
Please discuss ABA therapy with sensitivity to the children that were able to learn new skills and reduce dangerous behaviors because of very good ABA. Confusing bad ABA with all ABA is irresponsible.
All ABA is bad. ABA came from conversion therapy - it's literally the same thing (George Rekers who founded conversion therapy and Ivar Lovaas who founded ABA learned their methods trying to force gender nonconforming kids to act normal). Skills can be taught through abusive techniques. The same skills can be taught with affirming techniques. Given how much trauma is reported by ABA survivors, it is time to do away with it. I understand there are few other options out there. My own son went through ABA withe the best out there. Stopping it was the best thing we ever did. And he will tell you how he was traumatized by it. We, as parents, can often be ignorant of what our kids go through, especially if there are perceived benefits. To admit that we harmed them is tough indeed. https://neuroclastic.com/invisible-abuse-aba-and-the-things-only-autistic-people-can-see/
More resources showing why ABA is harmful:
https://stopabasupportautistics.home.blog/2019/08/11/the-great-big-aba-opposition-resource-list/
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/212235920-the-gold-standard-fallacy-of-aba
https://www.alfiekohn.org/blogs/autism/
https://therapistndc.org/aba-therapy-and-ptsd/
https://www.sentex.ca/~nexus23/naa_aba.html
https://therapistndc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Annual-Report-on-Autism-Care-Demonstration-Program-for-FY-2020.pdf
Kupferstein, H. (2018), Evidence of increased PTSD symptoms in autistics exposed to applied
behavior analysis, Advances in Autism, 4, 19-29. https://doi.org/10.1108/AIA-08-2017-0016
Sandoval-Norton, A.H., Shkedy, G. & Shkedy, D. (2019) in Jacqueline Ann Rushby (Ed.) How
much compliance is too much compliance: Is long-term ABA therapy abuse?, Cogent
Psychology, 6, DOI: 10.1080/23311908.2019.1641258
Shkedy, G., Shkedy D. & Sandoval-Norton, A. (2021). Long-term ABA Therapy Is Abusive: A
Response to Gorycki, Ruppel, and Zane. Advances in Neurodevelopmental Disorders, 5, 126-
134. DOI: 10.1007/s41252-021-00201-1
Your vehement opposition has the arrogance of speaking for all people that learn differently. It’s is unfortunate your child can tell you that he was traumatized. There are many other individuals that can tell you they increased their ability to communicate with ABA strategies. Your belief that ABA does not use affirming methods shines a light on your limited understanding of ABA. This is larger conversation than this thread and it is not my intention to add negative comments here. Your articles are opinions. I think this is a space where people can speak of their own experiences and not speak for what is best for others.
Respectfully...how many folks do you hear saying things like, "I'm glad I was spanked. It taught me respect."
There are many folks who claim they were cured by gay conversion therapy.
There are many folks who praise the way we police gender as a society because it "made them a man/woman."
All these practices are inherently abusive. ABA is no different. Non speaking Autistics who have been taught with alternative communication tell the same stories over and over.
Teaching skills is important..it can be done with connection and without coercion, or it can be done by shaping children with coercive techniques. Everything about ABA is the latter. It is okay if you are not convinced. This is more for those watching.
As a countercultural psychologist, understanding abusive and coercive dynamics in society, even subtle ones, is a passion. Abusive dynamics based in coercion are always harmful, even as people praise their abuse due to learning from it. It happens all the time. The point is there are other ways to teach the same skills. So lets do that.
Providing reinforcement for learning is not coercion. Implying that using reinforcement paired with teaching is likened to spanking and conversion therapy is a wildly manipulative tactic to bring in new clients to “countercultural psychology.” Good luck with your practice.
I love this episode. For decades, I’ve been attempting to build a formal meditation practice. I’ve had world class famous meditation teachers fail to land because it was rooted in the, “You must be still,” flawed frame. I decided to develop a yoga practice that was meditation focused because I could move. That worked for 20 years right up until I got too old to have the energy to mask my autism and ADHD. Around then, I found Jeff’s walking meditation and, lo and behold, I could do it. It was a watershed moment because he was the first to say, “Hey, it’s ok.” This episode frames this conversation in all the research I’ve found and done as a creative scientist around embodiment so delightfully. Thanks folks! More like this! 💖
Yay!!! Thank you for embodying your truth. That resistance is important.
Commentary during mind bod adventure pod
Watching in reel time now.
I,guess this is commentary
Neurologies?
Sensory?
Neurodiversity Therapy, Most brilliant Idea of Modern Time!
Use our neurodivergence like a strength or superpower
Brain works diffferntly
Impairment good use
Diagnosed.
Jeff talking I feel exactly what he felt going through experiencing it
Strategy using manual.
Basic intro adhd
Emotional regulation, DBT
Time blindness
Jen Kirkman
Good dynamic
Rejection sensitivity
Receive constant feedback in everything done, in order to learn & practise as you continue.
Change my life moment ,(right now), of awareness pause & recognition
Healing adhd
You can’t be more like who you are until you know who you are
Until you notice how you are
Self awareness
Accommodations to be made
Adding move,ent totally helps
Just goggled rocking
Lifelong addiction rocking
Meditation for neurodivergent .
Crhonicsllt shamed .
Rocking legs
Rubbing handlers, bouncer goggling, rocker,
Moving good
Always have rocked.
Self soothing unknowingly
These are my private, unsolicited opinions while watching this life altering friggin video.
#jeffiscool Phenenmal informative insight into the lives of a neurodivergent adhder bipolar with ptsd AND now anhedonic !🙏🤷♂️
Listening now. I’m thrilled to hear this and will look up Joel when I’m done. Thank you both for bringing this to the table …again!!
I'm 48 years old and was only diagnosed with ADHD about a year ago. Although it was one of the most significant aha moments of my life, there's still a lot of shame and pain. Today, I feel understood and accepted despite struggling to understand and accept myself; thank you. 🕊️❤️🩹🤲
OMG. 68 year old here, always perceived as a brat, whiner, diva, Prima Donna, princess, Karen...ugh. Two months ago, my Kaiser Psychiatrist, having examined my lifelong sensory issues, some noted in my medical record (asked ENT doc to burn out, disconnect, whatever, my highly sensitive sense of SMELL, all he offered was to give meds that would "stuff up" my nose....ugh) asked me to read Elaine N. Aron's book, The Highly Sensitive Person. He asked my family to read it as well, and they did. I CRIED FOR A WEEK to learn 20-30% of pop. also share this very exhausting, challenging heritary trait. 24 years ago, I remember the day, I made a decision whether to continue dating Fred and his boisterous, Japanese culturally raised family (no complaining!). He didn't critize my behaviors, he seemed a keeper. Recently I learned he planned on *helping* me to change them. That absolutely broke my heart. With the information now being shared about the neurodivergent experience, there is hope for compassion instead of opposition. BTW, four years ago Kaiser paid for my subscription to Calm. Everyday guy Jeff Warren saved my life.
As one of my traits is people pleasing, sorry for the length of this post.
Note: #jeffwarren.
My Friend: Jeff
manual/playbook/instructional on how to interact & appreciate the gifts that come with being neurodivergent.
The atmosphere & environment we thrive in. If their similarities & differences in techniques attempted &’were successful. Trial & Error for us. We combine our experiences ; having Four of same similarities. the The journey you went through to be present about #myfriendjeff
How there’s communication when insight or idea I have he’s still approachable
(Techniques that we commonly use, plus our own individual experiences; where each of us found balance using which specific techniques, such as #dbt skills.
Also more fine tuned audience, Like Our Similarities The Four we’re both #bipolar whom have #adhd Who happened to both be #neurodivergent with the same name #jeff However I’m the cool jeff notwithstanding.
If there’s one of us there’s Two of US somewhere, etc
How our own journeys through #mindfulness made its big full circle moment. And be appreciative.
Ok now I go back to watching #mindbodpod
Starting watching now.
Commentary to follow